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welcome to Sputnik orbiting the world
with me George Galloway and me gatri the
state of the Arab world could be summed
up in the confrontation between the
Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and Qatar two
countries little more than petrol
stations waving flags are about to go to
war at least that's the approximate
meaning of uh ultimatum issued by the
Saudi king or maybe his son the new
Crown Prince giving Qatar 10 days to
respond to 13 demands virtually all of
which are simply unconscionable unless
catar wishes to run down its flag and
end its existence as an independent
sovereign state when I met our special
guest for this special program today on
the state of the Arab world we thought
things could hardly get worse and that
was well over 30 years ago getting on
for 40 now the state of the Arabs is
what we'll be discussing this show with
the man I call the last Arab Abdul Baran
the Arab world's preeminent journalist
preeminent broadcaster a lion in in a
world that has few Lions Abdul Bari
thanks for joining us on the Sputnik
when we first met all the Arabs were
with your country Palestine most of the
people in the west were against it now
most of the people in the west think the
Palestinians have got a point but almost
all the Arabs are too busy murdering
each other on an industrial scale to
care for a moment about it let's start
with Palestine very hard to see now how
you or for that matter me are ever going
to see an independent Sovereign
Palestinian
State oh it is very very hard questions
to answer but the answer could be I
don't think it we will see this
independent state in our life time why
because most of the Arabs wealthy Arabs
in particular
they consider Israel as a friend not as
an enemy and they are normalization the
relation with Israel simply because they
believe now I'm talking about Gulf
States in particular Saudi Arabia and
the United Arab Emirates and bahin and
others they consider Iran is the arc
enemy of the Arab world so they believe
is
could be the hand which could help them
to conquer Iran or to destroy Iran
that's that's the irony in our part of
the words how it happens I believe
simply because when they destroyed Iraq
when they destroyed Syria when they
bankrupt Egypt so the only countries
which you know leading the Arab words
now is the Gulf States and with their
soft money power they managed to Pride
everybody United States Europe
everywhere and actually they put
actually the Palestinian cause of the
burner Palestine now is actually
completely forgotten and now we are busy
with the situation in Syria the
situation in Iraq and Syria where dases
is or Islamic state is now the the war
between the Gulf States three Gulf
States against the smaller one which is
so it's it is a tragedy it is a tragic
situation tell us what lies behind this
because uh it's very difficult to see
what material difference there is
between Saudi Arabia and Qatar both are
up to their necks in the destruction of
Libya in the destruction of Syria both
collaborated in the destruction of Iraq
all the things that you uh said the only
difference between them being Egypt for
one year and under President Mory uh
what really lies behind what would
appear to be the gates opening to
another war and this time in the Gulf
between two Arab countries two rich Arab
countries yeah two rich Arab countries
kingdoms yeah kingdoms you know uh in
the beginning of the so-called Arab
Spring the
monarchies the Gulf States where the
money concentrated they thought they are
immune from any trouble they thought
they are
superior they thought they are different
from other
Arabs and they thought they are in the
driving seats of the Arab wordss they
have Frozen the the Syrian membership of
the Arab League they export terrorists
to Libya to Syria to actually create
failed states there as they did in
Afghanistan and other parts of the world
Muslim words in particular so the the
the conflict now is coming to them okay
Syria managed to Ste fast Libya is you
know it's it's it's a Miss now
so now they are eating each other what
happened if why the reason the reason is
now there is a young leadership in Saudi
Arabia and they want to minate not only
the Gulf region but the whole of the
Arab worlds thinking that they got the
money and they can buy
everybody uh it is there there are many
many uh you know reason for this
conflict you can say it is a tribal
there is there is um tribalism roots in
this or tribal roots of this the compete
competition between the AL sa and Alani
who are belonging to different tribes
despite being all of them uh adopting
the Wabi uh uh you know
theology the other reason is Saudi
Arabia want to be the dominant everybody
has to be under their clock under their
umbrella qat is AEL qat would like to be
independent would like to be Sovereign
would like to have different foreign
policy and they want to challenge Saudi
Arabia you know say okay we want to have
a relation with Iran we want to have a
relation with Hamas we want to have a
different relation with with with other
part of the world we are not going to
fight as we should fight in Yemen like
the others so no now the leadership that
especially the young Crown Prince of
Saudi Arabia Prince Muhammad bin Salman
he would like to dominate qat he would
like qat to actually rise the White Flag
saying they want Kat to be like bahin
you know absolutely submissive
absolutely insignificant so I believe uh
the C are not you know are not a soft
not to be actually uh crashed they would
they say no you know we are not going to
submit to to your uh demands the 13th
demands from them George they did not
present this demands to be accepted they
made it to be rejected to go to the
third phase the first phase in in any
wars in the Middle East first phase is
propaganda and media War the second
phase is
sanction blate the third state the third
state or stage is confrontation regime
change military confrontation and regime
stage so or regime change that's what
happened in Libya that's what happened
in Iraq and that what happened in Sy
Syria in a way or another so they are
repeating the same thing against Qatar
they believe Qatar in the end will throw
the towel and submit if they don't
submit you know they will invade it it
happened in 1992 when the Saudi changed
the Border by force with between Saudi
Arabia and Qatar it happened in 19 uh 19
996 when the Saudi organized a military
coup inside Qatar and they send troops
and it was failed
and now it could be repeated again so
humiliation is the name of the game uh
enforcement is the name of the game how
can you give somebody 10 days to apply
to carry out 13 demands including
closing closing Al jazer cut off
relation with Muslim brotherhoods
deporting people break relations with PR
with Iran and how can you and kick out
the Turkish forces forces and Turkish
close the Turkish base military base
there how can you do it in 10 days
George tell me palas or Invasion by
Saudi Arabia ah you know there are two
scenarios the first scenario is uh uh
you know to prepare internal coup and to
split the royal family you know you know
because there are several faction there
or two major factions and they are
competing with each
who will be on the throne this is one
thing so in
19 uh uh 96 actually they used al- Morra
tribe which is the biggest in in Doha in
in in in qat and al- Mora failed to do
so because there was split on the on the
tribe in itself and also the American
because of the base Alid base in Qatar
which is one of the biggest in the
Middle East so they said no you know we
there is some sort of uh you know
agreements or treaties between us to
protect Qatar when there is a problem
there is one one one scenario is to have
internal
coup the second scenario is you know to
have
a you
know intervention military intervention
to change the regime and to install
somebody from the royal family in Qatar
or it could be a combination of both you
know internal coup and external
Invasion under the name of helping the
internal coup and then change the regime
so because what they can do after that
okay katar is not Gaza Strip Kata is
used to earn 886 billion a year the
standard of living is very high the
national income is about you know about
$100,000 per per uh head so they are
wealthy they you know they can survive
the sanction so the sanction can be
there for years to come and I don't
think they will starve and because and
they have the biggest uh uh Air airlines
in on the Middle East so they can bring
whatever they want and their population
you know the you C population is 300,000
this is the problem so the shooting may
be about to start we'll discuss what the
implications of that will be after the
break
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you're watching Sputnik With Me George
Galloway and gatri we're discussing with
the last Arab abdulbari atwan the great
Arab journalist and broadcaster and one
of the very few men in the world who
interviewed Osama Bin Laden we'll come
to that later just before we leave
Qatar uh if the shooting
starts one must presume that Saudi
Arabia will prevail unless the Americans
stop them although Saudi ground forces
are very much an
unproven uh asset they have been
murdering thousands in Yemen but only
from the sky they Daren send their
soldiers across the border will this be
uh the new Crown Prince's first war and
will it be
successful the Crown Prince he's a man
of he's a man full of arrogance and he
believes he
can Prevail in any
crisis when he decided to send his War
plays to bomb the poorest Arabs in Yemen
he was so confident that the war will
end maximum in a month if if not if not
less than that so he was proven wrong
because he doesn't understand how
difficult Yemen Yemen is you know as a
fighter and as a population as a nation
so I I believe that okay Qatar is a
small country he he's thinking that you
know they are Rebel they are uh full of
uh Pride so he can crush them and you
know there is a a
border the only border crossing for qat
outside the world is is the one with
Saudi
Arabia I mean the land one okay so uh he
believes that he can send his troops and
he can send his uh war planes and Kat
Army is very small and force them to
throw the towel and raise the White Flag
but we know how to start the war but we
don't know how to end it or how the end
will be he doesn't understand that you
know he is not a general he is not
qualified from sad test or West Point or
some these you know uh traditional U uh
military academics and like even even
you know some of his like some of other
Gulf uh you people especially the Amir
of for example he he's a graduate yes
he's graduate from s his father is
anyway so he is thinking that he can
accomplish this job you know in in a
very short time and he also supported by
Muhammad bin Zed who is the Crown Prince
of Abu Dhabi and both of them are very
wealthy and they have F15 F-16 war
planes the most sophisticated American
war planes but the problem is you know
we we know the Middle East we know where
they start
but we never knew where the end so if we
what will happen is Iran is going to be
silent is turkey will stay away for
example exactly because aragan has moved
from side bit in the past decade or so
so they're here now in Qatar but will
they stay will they fight will the
Turkish fight to defend Qatar we to be
honest uh erdogan is unpredictable
man uh he actually you cannot predict
what his next
ACT uh in Syria for example he was a
very close friend family friend of
Bashar alassad of Syria and also you
know Bashar Assad of Syria was a family
friend of the Amir of
Qatar previous Amir of Qatar and
suddenly erdogan in in the switch of
seconds he change from a friend of
Bashar al-assad to his foe same thing
Gaddafi he was the closest friend of uh
erdogan you know Gaddafi the the demise
of Gaddafi simply because he gave the
contracts not to Britain not to France
he gave the construction contracts the
digital contracts the electronic
contracts the military to India to uh
Turkey to China to Russia and this is
this is this is the reason why he was
deposed so erdogan was a very very close
friend of uh of uh Kel Kad what happened
then he sided with NATO against him and
he actually sided with his enemies the
Muslim brotherhoods and some those um
you know radical Islamic organizations
let's turn to them let's let's turn to
them you're one of the very few
journalists ever to interview AMA Bin
Laden in his cave in the Torah Bora this
Isis dises looks to be on its last leg
legs
militarily but I believe and I'd be
interested in your take that will not be
the end of it the forces which created
this Isis Al-Qaeda phenomenon will
merely morph into something else is Isis
on its last legs is Al-Qaeda on its last
legs and what will happen if it falls
down George I have a different the
theory when I said in the beginning that
Isis
the
nucleus of Isis the
exgen of Sadam Hussein those people who
converted to Islam because they were
frustrated their army was dissolved
their country the government was
dissolved the regime was dissolved by B
Brer the the famous American Governor
military governor of Iraq so anyway they
met with Abu Bakr Al baghdadi and others
in bukah prison and they s the seeds of
the Islamic State or
is uh I believe they were used without
knowing that simply because the American
would like to put pressure on al-maliki
norri al-maliki of Iraq and to remove
him and it seems they managed to capture
musul Rea and other parts of Syria and
Iraq fua and you you know the country
very well so now uh when they are facing
about you a coalition of 60 or
65 Powers including superpowers and
Regional Powers uh they are not going to
win this war definitely they will lose
it they are about to lose musul and they
are about to lose re what will happen
now because they drained all their
resources Financial Resources especially
they used to export oil equal to $3
million a day of um um crude oils so now
they are
bankrupt so what happened and they are
running out of arms they use because
they captur a lot of Arms from the Iraqi
Army now actually they could move from
consolidating their power on land
expanding
geographically to the second phase which
alqaeda face which they use to ridicule
which is
Terrorism so now they have branches in
in at at least 19 countries in Sinai in
a sah of in Libya and in Africa and
Nigeria and Afghanistan in Yemen in
every in Pakistan so now they could be
more dangerous they could turn to
expanding on terrorism because they
failed they are shrinking territory wise
and expanding terrorism wise so this is
the most dangerous thing why they will
go underground now they will get rid of
actually uh providing
services and running big cities or big
state you know which is the equal of
maybe the double size of of Britain now
they will be immune from this and they
will be relieved from this services or
running the aair day-to-day life of of
of a a country bigger than Britain so
they will go underground will be
cheaper and less costly and more
dangerous before they were engaged with
the people with the governments like
Iraqi government the Syrian government
even with with the Coalition American
coal now they will be engaged with with
you know with terrorism only yeah they
will concentrate in terrorizing the
whole world and including in the west I
mean this terrorism is already here with
us we see people in London in Manchester
in uh in in on the mainland of Europe
exploding themselves to kill large
numbers of innocent people so this
terrorism is going to get worse not
better it will get worse why George now
because the Islamic State or Isis busy
on defending themselves they are not
those people are mainly volunteers they
are not prepared to do terrorism
they are not actually trained to do
terrorism you know to Van to drive a van
and uh stamped people this is not
doesn't need training also you know to
carry a gun or to you know explosive
belt and go explode yourself in in uh
musical arena in Manchester is not a
training yeah if they go
underground they could be a vicious
enemy a vicious terrorist because those
those people will trade they will focus
in terrorism that's why they could be
more dangerous now what we are seeing
now what we are seeing now is Amish act
it not actually a proper act but when
they start to concentrate on terrorism
like Al-Qaeda for example in the
beginning look what they did they went
to uh the World Trade Center in New York
they went to American embassies in
Nairobi and Dar Salam they went to the
American Destroyer sea Destroyer uh coal
it's it's cool you know they because
they were concentrating on terrorism
those people if they go under ground if
they are defeated they will be you know
eager for Revenge they will prepare
themselves for terrorism properly uh
because as I said in the past they were
okay busy they have people to run people
to finance people to feed now they are
relieved from that they they they have
people to give electricity to give water
to give health Health Care to they have
a media to run they have you know many
things they they have recruitment plans
so but now if they are relieved they
will concentrate only on terrorism and
that's why they could be lethal well we
better start concentrating a bit more
seriously on it ourselves because we're
all in danger dark days indeed ABD atwan
thanks for shining some light on
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them
and now it's your turn to tell us what
you think through the portals of social
media what's rattling gri Lots with the
whole Middle East upside down yes how'
you keep up with that dear euroman and
activist says the USA and Israel they
just want to make the Middle East a big
desert Without Borders just small tribes
uh well they would certainly benefit
from the Middle East being a desert
Without Borders just tribes and Emirates
but that doesn't mean that they're
behind it
I have to tell you after 40 years with
the Arabs I have come to the conclusion
that they don't need the USA and Israel
are both of them to cause Wars and mass
murder uh uh amongst each other uh this
is homegrown of course other people can
benefit but it's homegrown and it's a
part of the sickness which has entered
the bloodstream of the Arab world and
the Muslim World more widely I wish I
had more time to talk about it
unbelievable that's all we've got time
for then this week which alas means
that's the end of the show but please
stay in touch with us on social media
Facebook Sputnik on Russia today or
Twitter and Instagram rtor Sputnik it's
goodbye from me gri and from me George
Galloway it's been
marvelous
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oh